Human Monogamy Has Deep Roots en (scientificamerican.com)

jerkface, hace 1 año

Humans are not monogamous. A monogamous species would not feel sexual attraction and desire for people who are not their mate or a potential mate. The mere fact that we want to fuck everyone is proof, and insisting that humans are monogamous despite the available data showing someone has other partners in a huge portion of all long term relationships sounds a lot like denial.

Human “monogamy” is a common social convention, not a biological feature of humanity. DUH.

KBTR1066, hace 1 año

God forbid you should read the paper and discuss the evidence rather than spouting your psycho-babble bullshit.

jerkface, hace 1 año

It’s not a paper, it’s a fluffy article in a pop magazine.

I read a lot of it and it wasn’t very interesting. However, the very fucking first thing it tells us is that there are many people on Earth right now WHO DO NOT PRACTICE MONOGAMY. Did YOU read that part?

Y’know why it says that? Because humans are not monogamous! Not in the sense that we mean when talking about other animals. We can choose to have monogamous relationships (though many of them fail even when they want to for reasons those people largely do not even understand) but that doesn’t make us a monogamous species.

I don’t know why you are pissed off at me, but I hope you are having fun doing it.

assbutt, hace 1 año

I don’t know why you are pissed off at me

Probably because you came into a science forum, made some asinine claim with zero supporting evidence, and now that you've been challenged, you're acting like a victim. Without evidence there is no argument, no discussion, no anything. Evidence is the only truth that we have. If you do not have evidence, your claim is inherently bullshit. It's not even worth discussing until you have some factual basis upon which to build that discussion.

"Some humans aren't monogamous, therefore humans are not monogamous." isn't good enough. That doesn't even make sense, I can't believe you fuckin' said that.

You made the claim, you carry the burden of proof. Instead of acting like a fucking child, you could have been looking for papers that support your argument. I just glanced at Google Scholar for all of 3 minutes and scrolled through no less than 5 pages of papers on the topic of human monogamy. What's your excuse? Go find some proof, or shut the fuck up.

TheDudeAbiding, hace 1 año

data showing someone has other partners in a huge portion of all long term relationships

That's called cheating. Is that your excuse when you get caught? 'I can't help it, it's just my nature!'

psychological denial

Funny coming from someone who felt compelled to write this dumbshit comment on an anonymous forum justifying their shitty behavior.

The mere fact that we want to fuck everyone is proof

I really like pizza. I want to eat more pizza than is healthy. That is my nature. Fortunately I happen to be a human; humans possess higher cognitive abilities than animals, so they can employ logic rather than defaulting to natural instinct. Animalistic urges are not justification for being a piece of shit human being.

SJ_Zero, hace 1 año

Polyamory has benefits, but it also has big problems.

One is a scaling problem. Let’s say you have a couple. Then add one person. Now instead of one relationship, you have three to worry about. Add yet another person, now you have 4 relationships. Add another person, now you have 9. Have each new so get a so, now you have 30.

Relationships are hard. Most people can’t manage 1, so the idea of managing 3, or 9, or 30 is starting to get really difficult. You can split people off and say “hey, I’m going to just have time with girl 1 today and girl 2 tomorrow”, and that can set up a sort of firewall, but there’s a bit of a resource problem there where there’s only 24 hours in a day and someone’s going to feel left out or someone who needs more support won’t get it.

The resource thing also hits in other ways. A lot of women want children eventually, and ideally children require resources – space, time, money. In a monogamous relationship, a woman can monopolize a man’s resources, whereas under polyamory she needs to share. “Sharing is caring” rhymes so it must be true, but the data shows that a child’s quality time with their father is directly responsible for positive outcomes, so in that case maybe sharing isn’t caring after all.

On the topic of kids, there can be a real problem if a woman gets pregnant. Whose is it? Now maybe one of the men steps up and says “it’s mine” even though it isn’t clear that’s the case. What if he doesn’t though? A shared responsibility often becomes nobody’s responsibility.

Honestly, you can make it work, but it’s hard mode. It’s much more difficult to make polyamory work than monogamy, and many relationships that should die get drawn out by people who think just adding more people will fix things. In reality, a strong polyamorous relationship is based on relationships that would be strong monogamous relationships.

DarkGamer, hace 1 año

@SJ_Zero As a poly person myself I thought I'd chime in:

One is a scaling problem. Let’s say you have a couple. Then add one person. Now instead of one relationship, you have three to worry about. Add yet another person, now you have 4 relationships. Add another person, now you have 9. Have each new so get a so, now you have 30.

This rapid geometric growth in relationships presumes that everyone is in a relationship with everyone else within the polycule, and this is not often the case. When you make a friend, it does not imply that you're now in a friendship with everyone else they are friends with. It's the same with polyamorous relationships, many polyamorous people don't care to have a relationship with, or even know their metamours.

The resource thing also hits in other ways. A lot of women want children eventually, and ideally children require resources – space, time, money. In a monogamous relationship, a woman can monopolize a man’s resources, whereas under polyamory she needs to share.

This can work both ways, with a kitchen table/communal living sort of poly situation it can also mean more potential time, resources, and attention per child, with more adults looking out for the children's interests. The, "it takes a village," approach. Potentially more caregivers also means more socialization and oversight. In monogamous nuclear families there's opportunity for abusive situations to arise because of isolation, as only a small number of people truly know what's going on within them. I have a hard time imagining a Mommy Dearest sort of situation in a large poly household when there's a lot of adults around.
Some problems do arise though, especially when it comes to the issues of inheritance and financial support within a largely monogamous legal framework. Moralistic judges may deny custody because a parent chose a non-traditional relationship structure. Then there's the issue of inheritance and property rights, which is baked into monogamy. In fact I believe this is one of the main reasons monogamy is the default today; genetic studies suggest that monogamy might have evolved more recently, less than 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, right around the time we stopped hunter-gathering and switched to agriculture, when social stability was achieved by knowing who gets the farm.

You can split people off and say “hey, I’m going to just have time with girl 1 today and girl 2 tomorrow”, and that can set up a sort of firewall, but there’s a bit of a resource problem there where there’s only 24 hours in a day and someone’s going to feel left out or someone who needs more support won’t get it.

Very true! Love may be infinite but time is not. Scheduling is important and so is making sure everyone feels loved and included, and there's sometimes negotiations to make sure everyone's needs are met.

On the topic of kids, there can be a real problem if a woman gets pregnant. Whose is it?

This is also an issue when dating in a monogamous framework. If it matters, there's paternity testing.

Honestly, you can make it work, but it’s hard mode. It’s much more difficult to make polyamory work than monogamy

I would say it's different, easier in some ways, harder in others. One way it's easier: there isn't so much pressure to be everything to your partner, to meet all their needs or risk being left for someone who does. Instead, you can have partners that fulfill different needs without abandoning the last one. It's like having multiple different friends you do different activities with.
I'd say what makes it more challenging are the additional complications of more personal dynamics to work through; polyamory requires a lot of communication. You can't rest on your laurels or ignore issues, you always have to be maintaining both your relationships and yourself.