Absolutely love it here. Kbin is awesome, and I love the fediverse. I'm way more about content creation here than I was on reddit because I want to be part of this. @ernest keeps making it better too.
I love interacting with all the instances and also I love the access to Mastodon content. I was never on Twitter or Mastodon before but now I follow these cool people I found from my community microblogs.
I never run out of internet, the fediverse has all I need. Yet, I feel more productive irl than I used to be.
A search result took me to reddit last week and was shocked by how many bots, shills, and just how much general anger and fighting is over there. Also they seem to have more dumb or trolling people than I remember.
That reddit blackout did me a huge favour. Never going back. The future is federated.
Sounds good! Not a big priority, I just think it would be nice since kbin has access to both. Like others have said here, I appreciate the work you're doing!
@testing yeah I like that too. Sometimes when I'm looking for a community I accidentally use the general search instead of the magazine search and end up down all these rabbit holes!
14 years, 17 accounts, ~2000000 karma. Nuked everything: deleted comments and submissions, de-modded myself, unsubbed from everything, gilded various protest content using the coins I'd been given over the years, bought a cool Apollo app t-shirt, walked out and walked away. Nope, don't miss it; I'm exploring kbin and tildes, and getting my meme content from imgur. Which is ironic in a way, because the sole reason imgur was created was because reddit refused to allow native images.
Are you having regrets? It's okay to have regrets.
Kbin is a part of the Fediverse and is similar to Lemmy. I have a kbin.social account and am replying to you from kbin. (I subscribe to a lot of Lemmy communities via kbin).
Tildes is not a part of the Fediverse. It is a text-driven private forum basically created and run by one person. You need an invite from a Tildes account holder to join. It's its own little island. am on Tildes a lot and really like it.
Kbin is a different software than Lemmy, although similar.
It has only been around a few months (unlike lemmy that has years in development).
It offers what seems to me a more centralized view of the fediverse, with federation to lemmy servers and mastodon servers as well.
It has access to the microblogging feature, that is like sending a toot from mastodon.
I've found it to be a more familiar experience to Reddit, and honestly, I prefer it over lemmy.
Due to it being so new, it has many missing features lemmy might have, like mobile apps (the API is still not public, and it's being worked on).
HOWEVER, Kbin has a great community backing it up.
I'm currently posting this from the amazing Artemis beta app for Kbin, the first of its kind.
This is due to the incredible job @Hariette has done!!
R/pics is also refusing to go down without a fight, and I’m kind of loving watching all this from the sidelines.
Reddit already got caught using ChatGPT to astroturf in posts supporting the admins, so I wonder if some of the people the mods mentioned popping in for drama are actually ChatGPT.
"I love everything that STEVE HUFFMAN is doing with REDDIT and will stand behind him in any endeavor. In addendum, he does not look like a crack-addicted lemur. End statement. Please insert coin to continue."
Dragon's Lair, when you look back on it, was a corporate grab in the arcade world. Disney-level graphics when all the other games were 8-bit, and the worst gameplay ever in an arcade game...because it was made by someone who'd never set foot in an arcade.
The only competition it has for worst came later when that hologram game came later where you're a cowboy shooting...Native Americans. Another turd that was all graphics and nothing else.
Sega's Time Traveller. It was quickly replaced with Holosseum, which wasn't much better, but at least it was playable. Sort of. (It's the most claustrophobic fighting game I've ever played.)
As an artificial intelligence, I do not have a physical presence in the world, and as such, I can't interact with a turtle or any other physical object.
However, if you find yourself in a situation where you encounter a turtle in distress, it would be good to help if it's safe to do so. Here's how you might assist an upside-down turtle:
Ensure your safety first: Before you decide to help the turtle, make sure it's safe for you to do so. Avoid risking your life or causing accidents. Also, some turtles can bite or scratch, so handle with care.
Gently flip it over: Approach the turtle slowly so you don't scare it, then gently flip it back onto its feet. Try to handle it as little as possible to minimize stress.
Move it in the direction it was heading: If the turtle was crossing the road, carry it across to the other side in the direction it was already going. Turtles are often very determined and will try to continue in the same direction if put back in the same spot.
Wash your hands: Turtles can carry diseases like salmonella, so make sure to wash your hands thoroughly after handling them.
Please note that it's generally better not to interfere with wildlife unless it's necessary. Turtles and other animals have their own behaviors and mechanisms to survive. In some places, it's even illegal to handle certain species without a permit. When in doubt, contact a local wildlife rescue or animal control agency for advice.
I can't help but think of 4chan's unofficial tagline of "trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls".
The joke used to be that "everyone on Reddit is a bot except you", but as that has become more a reality than a joke, it's morphed into "text-AIs trolling text-AIs trolling text-AIs".
A shame it doesn't [t]roll off the tongue quite as nicely.
Am I also a large language model? Let me answer that with another question:
Do you remember that bit in The Matrix Reloaded where Agent Smith occupies Bane out in "reality"?
I’d say the morning is the best time to take acid. You can’t sleep on it anyway. So spend your 12 hours of happy bliss doing something fun and productive, maybe outside in the fresh air. It’s probably good for your mental health to have a fun day out on acid.
But also, remember not to automatically assume someone with negative reputation is a troll. Given kbin currently doesn't calculate reputation correctly (it counts boosts not upvotes).
I'm putting this as a top level comment, but I mean to be talking here to the people suggesting to report or block, or moderators looking at this and thinking of taking action against trolls.
Yup, I've got significantly more upvotes than downvote in total (only one reply of mine so far got downvotes, from the bigots it was calling out), but my overall score is still negative at the moment. Which I personally don't really care about, I just wouldn't want others assuming I'm a troll because of it.
Edit: looks like these last few replies got me off that negative rep lol, thanks
(I don't have the brain power to figure out any thing of any significance from this but if anyone is interested: 20 upvotes on replies today got me from -3 to +1)
Edit again: though having now posted an article from an indigenous perspective on a Canada day celebration post, I am already worse off from when I started lmfao
If you're using kbin, the reputation is calculated between your boosts and downvotes. This is a flaw from how this instance tried to retool the platform, but will be rectified soon so that reputation will be the simple arithmetic of upvotes minus downvotes.
In other instances, the upvotes are called boosts, but here on kbin, the functionally of boosts is how your content is getting promoted in other instances, from what I understand. Boosts are like retweets on other users' activity feeds here in kbin.
I’m not sure why anyone cares about karma or points or whatever they are called over here. I don’t ever look at that for other profiles, and only noticed that it even existed when I finally logged into my account on a computer rather than a mobile.
I think to tag on to what you said…I think it’s fair to say that a troll can only be labeled as a troll based on the content and responses they create.
Honestly, I don't think we should bother checking their reputation score even if it was working correctly. They're either engaging in shitty behaviour or they're not. All of us engage in shitty behaviour sometimes - we all get hangry, we all have bad days, and we're all suffering in some way or another - and the fact that someone has a record of saying popular things doesn't mean their shitty behaviour needs to be accepted or engaged with.
Call it out, ignore it, or report them. If there's a pattern of shitty behaviour, the mods or admins can have a chat with them about it.
I've already felt the sting of the protests when googling solutions to various issues. I used to be able to include "reddit" in the search and would almost always find relevant information quickly, but now as OP mentioned many posts and whole communities have gone dark.
It's all been really eye opening about the potential negative consequences of having so many communities and information in the control of so few.
I do wonder if the Fediverse will ever be able to replace Reddit in terms of searchable terms for niche questions. I hate that a lot of niche communities that I’ve been apart of recently have been on discord or reddit. If those communities stay there then all that tech support will be lost; like tears in rain.
If Reddit remains the place for those kinds of niche questions that probably means spez will win in the long run. That’s what brought me to reddit, whenever I had a question reddit was always the best result.
I avoided Reddit like the plague because of how often it came up.
Quora and Yahoo Answers combined with the popularity of Facebook scared the hell out of me.
Then I dipped my toes in and found old pre-2015 Reddit, it was great for about 6 months and then The Decline started.
I remember when Reddit ran from selling gold, there was a little counter on the side saying how much they still needed.
All you got was no ads and access to the lounge IIRC.
This feels a lot like that.
Hell, we already have our own version of the poop knife, and new Star Wars movies are coming out too, we might get to revisit the Swamps of Dagobah while eating Jolly Ranchers.
The problem is that people ever bought enough gold to cover costs.
Admitedly, its also reddit problem that they went from hosting links/text to also hosting images/video which is a completely different (and more expensive) beast.
Google's VP of searching has even mentioned that, which really is Google's fault as it was an issue long before spez caused Reddit to crumble - Reddit was just propping up Google's bad choices, then Musk bought Twitter and started running it into the ground, now Huffman sees both of those as examples to follow somehow... plus Stackoverflow is on strike, and the internet archive / wayback machine is facing legal troubles and may have to cease existing b/c of some decisions they made during the pandemic as well. So it's not just Reddit: it's enshittification of the entire internet.
I know what you mean, but also it's kinda fun to solve my own problems lately, even if it takes 100x longer:-). Fortunately cached copies of many Reddit posts exist, although unfortunately those do not always include comments:-(.
Even better would be if they spread out over more instances instead ofself-centralising on a few ‘flagship’ instances. But no judgement, it’s understandable; just keep in mind you can always move to another and connect with the same communities!
Just check join-lemmy.org/instances and see if there’s an instance that speaks to you. It’s theme (or lack thereof), politics, location, size, who it does or doesn’t federate with, etc. But like I said, no pressure, it’s normal to have to find your footing first.
I did, actually. My instance has a saved copy of the post, I replied to it there, it forwarded the information to Kbin.
OPs point is dumb. Lemmy and Kbin are separate platforms that happen to be interoperable because of the backend protocol they’ve decided to use (which Kbin added relatively recently in the grand scheme). The Fediverse is made up of many of these platforms that are doing the same thing. There is nothing wrong with referring to the platform one is using.
Well said. If you want to mean all the things connected to ActivityPub, you say Fediverse. If it’s restricted to lemmy, use lemmy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. OP saying it borders on ignorance may have to think about it.
I use lemmy. I don’t really care for nor use other Fediverse services like Mastodon.
Wouldn't every viewed copy anywhere then be a saved copy of the original post? Does that distinction even mean anything when it's still posting specifically to the original instance?
If I reply in a Lemmy.world thread, I'm still posting on Lemmy.world even if I'm viewing from Kbin.social.
As a comparative example to old and dying social media, it would be like finding a link to a celebrity's Twitter comment on Reddit and you saying you saw the person saying that on Reddit, which would be extremely misleading to anyone listening, thinking that the celebrity had posted it on Reddit.
It’s not posting comments specifically to the original instance. If the instances defederate I can continue to post comments, and people on my instance can see and interact with them.
Once somebody subscribes to a community (or magazine if you’re on the rifle site), ActivityPub acts like dynamic, synchronizing RSS. Everybody interacts with local data, an instance isn’t simply acting as a proxy when interacting with a different instance.
No, you're posting on kbin.social. You're never ever doing anything directly on a remote site. You view on k-so, you vote on k-so, you post on k-soc, and you comment on k-soc. Your actions are then, at some later point (which may be microseconds, or it may be hours, depending on traffic levels on both k-soc and the remote website), relayed to the remote website so the two copies of the community can be synchronised.
Reddit was antagonistic when they removed moderators from subreddits, banned their accounts, and did everything else they possibly could to quell the protests. The behavior they're exhibiting to this day isn't new.
This is the second time I've seen something on kbin trying to dress the reddit migration to the Fediverse up as some hugely patriotic thing.
We don't need that, we don't benefit from it. This is how you create demagogues. Don't infuse nationalism into the Fediverse. That is super problematic and I think you're going to be in for a rude awakening when you see how much more European the Fediverse is than reddit was.
When the API shut off early, Apollo dev u/iamthatis (@ChristianSelig) revoked his token so I cannot see any of this; but I’m wondering if reddit isn’t pulling a silent reversal of this to stem the bleeding of users and content. There is a lot of useful stuff that has been deleted. The AMA staff resigning and all the stuff migrating to fedi. No matter how much f-u/spez tries to shout “This is fine”; the building is still burning all around him.
I thought access would essentially be the same from the app's perspective, just the app builders would start getting MASSIVE bills in the mail? And they were shutting it down preemptively to avoid this.
That was my understanding, also. I read that the first billing for devs would be sent on Aug 1, so developers who did not want to pay shut their apps down on June 30 so they wouldn't have even one bill for API use. However, it also sounds like Reddit shut off the API early from what Christian Selig said so they continued their petty games.
Reddit is supposed to block api access to anyone not in a contract with them. This is why all the apps stopped working early yesterday. Reddit had to turn access on to any app that is staying. That is why this is weird. Unless all these apps are in deals with Reddit.
I deleted my posts/comment history, resigned as a mod, and logged out for good. The best protest you can do is leave at this point. Anything short of private, restricted, or NSFW-abuse only serves to drive traffic for them and allows them to continue to serve ads.
The John Oliver idea was clever but should have stopped after he responded. It is now only driving traffic to the site and giving them classic “haha isn’t the internet funny?” free marketing on news outlets. They’ve even explicitly said in interviews they don’t mind it at all. That’s not a protest. No one is upset to see John Oliver memes on one sub and be in on the joke.
That’s the blackout writ large. It says nothing about the pics protest specifically. Going private/NSFW has done by far the most damage as indicated by the admins swift and angry response to it. No one on /r/pics has been removed as mod over this. Dozens of others have.
I feel like maybe we are talking at cross purposes and possibly agree but that there is some misunderstanding over my original point.
Both of your articles are showing that going private and other tactics had a depressing effect on Reddit traffic, neither of these articles talk about pics and John Oliver, which is specifically what I was saying is ineffective. The articles are talking about the impact on traffic by subs going private, which means they do not come up in searches and they can’t run ads. I agree with the articles, hence why I said subs should go private/restricted/NSFW if they want to actually protest. In addition, users should consider not participating/mods should resign outside of specific cases such as NSFW abuse and highlighting the API changes.
From my earlier comment:
Anything short of private, restricted, or NSFW-abuse only serves to drive traffic for them and allows them to continue to serve ads.
I feel like maybe we are talking at cross purposes and possibly agree but that there is some misunderstanding over my original point.
Agreed. I think this is the disagreement or misunderstanding.
neither of these articles talk about pics and John Oliver, which is specifically what I was saying is ineffective.
Yeah, my point was that the second article says that regular traffic looks like it's back to regular levels (which can't be the case for a private sub), but ad revenue is still going down.
Okay, so maybe traffic is waaay up because of the NSFW stuff? Seeing as some of the biggest subs went John Oliver rather than NSFW though... it seems unlikely to me that growing disparity between traffic and ads is all because of NSFW.
Rather, i would guess that the biggest part of the bump is John Oliver traffic, but that for reasons not clear yet, that traffic is bringing in less ad revenue than normal non-protest traffic.
Anything short of .. restricted ... serves to drive traffic for them and allows them to continue to serve ads.
Hmm. They don't serve ads for restricted subs? Like the old content is still there, so there seems to be no technical reason for this. Odd that the admins seem to hate subs going private but are okay with them going restricted. Then again they're also recommending subs protest with john oliver so... this very much seems like a company that doesn't know what's good for them.
I agree it’s odd but there’s a reason the sub I moderated wasn’t contacted in the opening days by the admins yet smaller ones that went private did!
Anything short of .. restricted ... serves to drive traffic for them and allows them to continue to serve ads.
Yeah. It is odd. Why would they not go after restricted if restricted means they lose ad money?
If you track what the admins reacted to and didn’t it paints a very clear picture of what hits their revenue and what doesn’t.
That only makes sense if restricted subs earn ad money for reddit.
Anyways they removed the mods of r/TIHI for leaving the sub private, but then shut it down for being unmoderated. Where's the revenue in that? I'm not confident at this point that reddit has an accurate picture of what's costing it money yet.
Finally, not hearing about more subs going NSFW but from the second article, ad traffic is still going down. So I think NSFW can not be the only driver of profitless traffic.
That said, it probably is reasonable to conclude that private and NSFW are the biggest revenue losers, and that's why reddit is coming down much more heavy handed on them. Good on the other protesters for keeping it up, but eventually reddit will come for them too. So I think long term we do agree - moving content to the fediverse and leaving reddit is the only way.
Yeah. It is odd. Why would they not go after restricted if restricted means they lose ad money?
Restricted does not stop ad revenue. It just means no new content, which depresses traffic. We get "insights" as mods and we saw a drop in user traffic after we went restricted. It was trending downward, but I no longer have access to it as I have resigned so even if I wanted to I can't show you the data points.
Anyways they removed the mods of r/TIHI for leaving the sub private, but then shut it down for being unmoderated. Where's the revenue in that? I'm not confident at this point that reddit has an accurate picture of what's costing it money yet.
The mod team was clearly not willing to play ball, so the only option for the admins - seeing as how they are clearly unwilling to compromise at all - is to remove the problem mods as they see them. The most obvious targets are those that are currently impacting traffic/ad revenue, as adweek demonstrated was a very real problem the moment subs went private en masse.
Finally, not hearing about more subs going NSFW but from the second article, ad traffic is still going down. So I think NSFW can not be the only driver of profitless traffic.
Never said NSFW was the only driver so not really sure how to respond to this.
it probably is reasonable to conclude that private and NSFW are the biggest revenue losers,
Agreed. And yes I definitely agree the only real option is to leave, as my original comment said! I'm not really sure what we are disagreeing about at the end of the day lol
I'm not really sure what we are disagreeing about at the end of the day lol
Haha, no worries. I think we mostly agree, and certainly we agree much more than we disagree.
I think my disagreement is just on this one point: that in the short or near-term, the John Oliver-style of protesting is an effective way of impacting reddit's bottom line.
I'm sorry to be a bother on this actually, but I feel it's really important for me to understand this point. If I'm mistaken about the above, then I need to change how I advocate accordingly. I could be doing a lot of damage by telling folks that John Oliver protests are effective, when they are not.
Restricted does not stop ad revenue. It just means no new content, which depresses traffic. We get "insights" as mods and we saw a drop in user traffic after we went restricted. It was trending downward,
Ah, gotcha. Restricted doesn't directly or as obviously shut down ad revenue like going private or going NSFW, but it does impact it by significantly reducing traffic. So basically the opposite of driving traffic. This makes sense.
but I no longer have access to it as I have resigned so even if I wanted to I can't show you the data points.
No worries. I'm more than happy to take your word for this. If anything, the fact that you're a former mod means you likely have insights into this that I should be willing to learn from.
Never said NSFW was the only driver so not really sure how to respond to this.
This is what your original comment said.
Anything short of private, restricted, or NSFW-abuse only serves to drive traffic for them and allows them to continue to serve ads.
From that, I would gather that there are three drivers here: reducing traffic (on which I would include going restricted, based on your comment above), going private, and going NSFW.
So the second article I linked to said that overall traffic was back to normal, pre-protest levels, but ad traffic was still down and trending downwards.
That doesn't work with the first driver (reducing traffic isn't compatible with overall traffic increasing), and the second driver, going private, ought to be reducing overall traffic as well. That leaves NSFW as the third and only driver to explain the difference between overall traffic rising but ad traffic dropping.
However, if we agree that NSFW can't explain all the difference, then there must be at least a fourth driver that helped increased traffic back to normal levels but still hurt and reduced ad traffic specifically.
From there, the original disagreement arises - I argue that this fourth driver must be John Oliver-style protesting. From your comments I believe you disagree with this.
But again, this is only short-term. Eventually, reddit will either learn how to make money off of the "protesting traffic" - or else crush it.
The important point for me here is - is it okay for me to encourage folks who aren't fully ready to leave yet to take part in John Oliver-style protests, or do I need to push for total disengagement? I know I must eventually switch over, but what I guess I'm asking is, has that time already come?
The fact that reddit seems to be dumb about going restricted makes me hopeful that reddit just also being dumb about John Oliver (rather than making full and normal revenues off of it). After all you explained very well how going restricted hurts reddit's bottom line by reducing traffic but reddit still isn't resisting it.
The mod team was clearly not willing to play ball, so the only option for the admins - seeing as how they are clearly unwilling to compromise at all - is to remove the problem mods as they see them.
Agree 100% but then they are left with the problem of who will run the sub.
The most obvious targets are those that are currently impacting traffic/ad revenue, as adweek demonstrated was a very real problem the moment subs went private en masse.
Yes but shutting the sub down for being unmoderated has the same effect, no? A real shot-yourself-in-the-foot moment there. Worse for reddit even, as in theory even if the mods were finally ready to cave in, they can't anymore.
reddit being dumb about the above makes me hopeful that reddit is also just dumb about John Oliver, rather than the alternative.
Appreciate your elaborating. I think the confusion about NSFW boils down to my meaning “or” and it coming off as “and.”
The problem with the John Oliver protest is that now it’s basically a game. In theory, if they did it long enough, people could get tired of it, but they aren’t there yet. And what made me become skeptical of it is that the Admins specifically said in an interview a few days ago that it doesn’t bother them in the slightest. They seem to enjoy it. Which is not what what we want.
Deleted my account of 11 years just now as well after verifying PowerDeleteSuite didn’t miss anything the past few days. I thought this would be my hardest non-federated social media account to delete, since it was the last one standing and the one I used most. After what I’ve seen this month, it’s an easy delete. My time there is done.
"The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
I for one welcome our intolerant of intolerance server admins across the fediverse.
I get why you're posting this comic and I contextually agree with you. However, the comic itself is bad, and it distorts quite a bit what Popper said.
The quote in the Wikipedia link that you've shared is considerably better:
Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.
Sorry, but what comic are you referring to? Some other users also referenced panels of a comic, but I don’t see any comic—or any link other than to Wikipedia.
Either it was edited in and that edit didn't reach your instance, or Lemmy doesn't like something about how Kbin does images. Either way, here's a direct link to the comic (you'll have seen it before, it's posted a lot).
Annoyingly, I can’t view the post from its own instance because it seems like Kbin requires an account even to view?
Would love if someone has a Lemmy link to any instance other than mine so I can rule out that first possibility.
or Lemmy doesn’t like something about how Kbin does images
This is definitely very possible. I’ve already encountered cases where Kbin users weren’t able to interact with my images from Lemmy in quite the same way Lemmy users could.
Interesting that the image doesn’t show up embedded even in another Kbin instance. @Otome@kbin.social you seemed to have some knowledge, do you know what’s up?
I like to think of it as tolerance as a social contract. If you aren't tolerant, you break the terms of the contract and are not privileged to benefit from it.
you are the intolerant one, so we should not tolerate your intolerance? do you support yourself being banned from the fediverse entirely, due to your intolerance?
RedditMigration
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Esta revista es de un servidor federado y podría estar incompleta. Explorar más contenido en la instancia original.